Does anyone teach sword dancing?

topic posted Fri, April 23, 2004 - 12:42 PM by  Berto
Or do I have go to a Kung Fu school or something?
posted by:
Berto
SF Bay Area
  • Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

    Fri, April 23, 2004 - 5:58 PM
    I own a kendo stick and a steel mace but that is it. I just purchased a copy of Darrell Craig's book on Kendo, and may sign up for lessons in the near future depending on how my financial situation.
  • Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

    Fri, April 23, 2004 - 11:54 PM
    I taught Kendo for a few years before I used a fire sword. I actually found it about as much of a hinderance as it was a help. Sure, you have all the right muscles built up, but you get in this mode of thought, attack-return-parry-etc, that just doesn't look good with fire. Even some of the dancier forms like WuShu don't translate well. I had to retrain myself into doing a bunch of moves that you'd never use at all in combat.

    If you're planning on doing fire sword combat, it helps a lot to know how to defend yourself but you'll have to alter a lot of your stances and moves because of the amount of light given off by the sword.
    • Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

      Sat, April 24, 2004 - 3:59 PM
      Not combatives. I'm thinking more solo forms or spinny kung fu stuff.
      • Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

        Sat, April 24, 2004 - 9:33 PM
        Yeah, then the combat stuff won't be what you want...

        Stick with the practice bat until you get your moves down.
        • Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

          Sun, April 25, 2004 - 12:37 AM
          I found the chinese kung fu helpful in its flowing spinning movements. but mostly i just got myself a pair of swords and started foolin around. Oh yeah if you like your arm hair always point the sword UP!!!!!
          • Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

            Sun, April 25, 2004 - 12:32 PM
            luckily I don't have arm hair!
            • Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

              Fri, May 28, 2004 - 7:15 PM
              firedancing or armhair. its a choice. anybody who thinks otherwise is fooling himself..

              no martial form ever translates directly into dance without modification. the purposes are too different. but theyre great bases on which to build.
              personally, i have a pet peeve about using something symbolically without having at least some basic feel for how it was meant to be used originally. ie rules are made to be broken - but its good to know the rules you're breaking.
              for several reasons, including safety.
              • Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

                Sun, May 30, 2004 - 9:23 AM
                know the rules, so you may break them properly...
                i'll be bringing my sword to the r,w, & b beach event next weekend, anyone going, love to swap some moves.......
                • Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

                  Thu, June 3, 2004 - 8:18 AM
                  There are many forms of sword dancing. Modified Martial Arts.
                  Bellydance. Burlesque Style (where it is more phallically presented). Gael Step. Turkish. Capoeira. Polynesian (though they look more like butcher's knives).
                  I teach a few of these on demand, and yes, they all can be done by men (I am sure some eyebrows went up on a couple).

                  Most of these you do not have to have a history and training in the weapon to move with it, but training in the dance form sure as hell helps with form and presentation, and safety.

                  Yoga and Tai Chi are also forms of movement that sword works adapts well to. It is all about your personal comfort zone in movement and what sword style you choose to use.

                  Kindest Regards,
                  Pele
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

                    Fri, June 4, 2004 - 3:47 PM
                    Yeah, I have a student that uses a modified Chang-sword form of Tai Chi for his slow routine (he's in my combat class as well), and it looks pretty good. The basic style was a bit too slow but with a couple of personal flourishes, he had a good routine.
              • Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

                Fri, August 27, 2004 - 12:30 PM
                I agree with J -- "no martial form ever translates directly into dance without modification."

                that being said, lots of elements can be incorporated seamlessly.

                This is especially true with a fire sword. I have been formally training and informally sparring with swords for over 15 years, and what I do with a firesword is markedly different than what I do in a sparring match.

                However, all that time manipulating implements gives you the muscle memory, reflexes and basic forms to dance with that same implement.

                just my 2 cents,

                -david
                www.fireninja.com
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

                  Mon, March 14, 2005 - 1:11 PM
                  what kind of sword do you use when performing? I know I cant just take my kung fu weapons forms and slap burning kevlar on the end. Nor can I take a bellydance scimitar rigged with fire and manipulate it like a tai chi or broadsword.

                  any insight?
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                    Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

                    Sat, April 9, 2005 - 7:56 PM
                    I have found a few things to be very true when using a firesword:

                    1. Since the fire coming off on a basic firesword is about 2 feet high ( just a ballpark) be careful using any swing that comes away from your head area or you tend to end up with a face full of flame. ( especially when using white gas - it tends to leave me with no eyelashes and singed on my eyelids )

                    2. blocks using the back of the hand on the back of the blade are pretty much out unless wearing kevlar gloves - or you happen to be really used to having alot of flame on your hands.

                    3. The 9 basic strikes can all be used ( imagine a chaos symbol including the center point as a thrust ) if you follow them and move the blade from one strike to another it can look impressive and is a very basic movement. ( imaging doing figure eights in front of your body - draw the pattern on paper then try to use the sword to make that pattern - this can help )

                    4. Throwing the blade up is possible and impressive - but the center of gravity of the blade is usually off quite a bit so practice it alot before using fire.

                    5. Any sword teaching class will help you develop basic fluid movements , so get a regular sword teacher - any for will do.

                    hope this helps..
                    Kevin
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

                    Sun, April 10, 2005 - 10:18 AM
                    ironic that you say that. Because I did actually just wick up most of my broadswords. drilled a hole in the blade near the bottom and put a bolt in just for added security.

                    If you do end up with fire broadswords, you'll be in my camp of 'what the crap do I do now', because they are directional swords, and difficult ones to use in a long routine. But, it's worth it.

                    Also, the wider the blade, the more the flame licks up your arms. Broadswords are absolutly brutal. With white gas, I can get the flames to come up to my elbows. With lamp oil, it's only half up my forearms.
  • Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

    Mon, March 7, 2005 - 1:21 PM
    I teach a sword dance with Middle Eastern flair...but I won't be visiting CA for a few months...not sure where in CA you are...if you are near Oceanside, see Morwenna & Walid Assaf.... MECDA, SAMEDA also may be close to you...if you are near the valley, check in with the arabian jewels....
    www.rakkasah.com/index.htm
    is a festival coming up next weekend near you! it is one of the best in the country! look at the different performers onthe list and see who is close to you..just about every belly dancer has a sword dance, it is like one part of the basic 4 food groups!
    good luck!
    capoeira is another place you may find your teacher!
  • Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

    Tue, March 29, 2005 - 7:46 PM
    Weeelll.... my personal firesword style is derived from Wushu (being IMHO one of the more beautiful but less "useful" martial arts) - most of the moves are culled from various wushu sword forms, with an emphasis on the dramatic movements. The most difficult part of solo-fire sword spinning (and indeed in fire staves too) may be trying to make the movements flow, rather than choppy. My advice would be to apply yerself to kungfu or wushu, and then extrapolate from the moves you learn there...
    • Re: Does anyone teach sword dancing?

      Mon, May 9, 2005 - 2:07 AM
      kung fu, wushu, and tai chi all lend themselves to very flowy movements for blade work. I've derived a bit myself from kyushin ryu kenjutsu and classical italian fencing as well, especially in movement, balance and stance. I completely agree it helps to know all of the rules before you break them, not to mention you might look like you know what you're doing instead of just swinging around a practice bat ;) And yeah, kendo was almost completely useless, the stance was too high, the movements too direct for me to try and use them for performances.
  • Southeast Asian weapons are specifically dance

    Sun, July 10, 2005 - 6:32 PM

    I've recently joined this tribe (if you'll have me) have recently started lighting up my swords.

    While fire is relatively new to me, sword "dance" is pretty familiar - I have a school in Vancouver, Canada dedicated to Southeast Asian weapon arts
    www.maelstromCore.com
    where sword (and knife and stick and staff, etc.) are taught from Filipino, Indonesian, and Thai fighting arts.

    One of the unique things about southeast Asian martial arts is that they have already translated the fighting to dance. Typically the martial art is performed culturally (e.g. at festival) in the form of dance. Anyone familiar with the exotic Balinese dance for example can imagine how they stylize their martial dance as well.

    In pencak silat (Indonesian), they separate the two sides of the arts into "kembunguan" and "buah" or "flower" and "fruit". The "flower" is usually the dance form - sort of like a kata but typically much more stylized. It contains the essence of the combat but designed for performance (as well as practice). The mini-katas of any given pencak silat (there are 100s of different systems and styles) are referred to as "jurus" and can be executed in either "flower" or "fruit" modalities.

    The "fruit" is of course the combat execution - usually very short, sharp and effective. Brutally so in many cases - pencak silat tends toward being nasty.

    All that said, the southeast Asian arts have provided me with ample substance for fire sword routines. Of course, some of it still doesn't translate (e.g. when the blade is too close to the body) - however, the graceful movements and exotic posturing flow really nicely with the flame.

    Pencak silat is very rare though - If you have an opportunity to train kali/arnis/eskrima (the FIlipino stick fighting arts), you may find similar materials. Some forms of kali are again not quite suitable - but my system of Pekiti-Tirsia tends to the exotic and rounder movements and translates well.

    Finally, rarer than both, krabi krabong is a Thai sword system that I am just putting flame to - except for some postures which have blade contacting the arms (kevlar sleeves, anyone?), it looks almost ideal for stylistic movements. It too has both dance and combat modalities.

    Hope that helps.

    P.S. Wushu is easily the most accessible and applicable source of Chinese sword form for fire IMHO. If you can find it, try it.

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